某台湾仔自称是计算机系毕业，却连这种事情都看不明白，真不知道书读到那里去了。

如今高成本的制作一个引擎的目的绝对不是让它封闭的只在某一个地方起作用。而是针对不同硬件结构提供一个统一的接口，开发者在一个统一的新的层次上专注于游戏的开发，而引擎根据硬件配置，生成特定的执行方式。举个简单的例子，比如在PS3上调用动态模糊，引擎执行真正的动态模糊，而WII的机能办不到，但是为了工程能够直接移植到WII，那么引擎可能就是执行“模糊”效果了。:D 在比如，不管你是读硬盘，还是读USB，还是读BD，还是读CF卡，不管机器是PC,PS3,三红机，WII,对于软件工作人员，统统都用ReadFile()，引擎负责具体怎么做。
引擎能够跨越更多的平台本来就是引擎设计的一个目标，如今却成了某些人YY的主料了

[ 本帖最后由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-23 14:28 编辑 ]

引用:

原帖由 村上春樹 于 2008-2-23 14:41 发表


sce淚流滿面啊。玩皮狗、Insomanic的引擎可打著「跨平台」？原來人家不用遵循這項目標啊。請問ff神怎麼評價這兩家獲得高評譽的公司？

有的引擎没跨平台，就说明引擎制作的主要目的中没有跨平台？ 无下限。

引用:

原帖由 索尼来也 于 2008-2-23 15:12 发表


是要做的游戏要跨平台才导致制作跨平台的引擎，不然别人为什么费钱费时间做跨平台引擎？别丢sf的脸了，洗洗睡把，天师至少还买了ps3

诚然，肯定是有需要开发其他平台作品的需要，才会有设计跨平台的引擎。
但是引擎跨平台了，与某一个特定的游戏是否打算跨平台没有任何联系。比如SE的引擎跨平台了， 所有FF13就跨平台了？   这么想也太无下限了吧， 莫非假如SE还想在WII上开发其他游戏，就要重新做引擎？让现有引擎能跨到WII上不省事得多。

那天EPIC想在WII上开发游戏， 同样也是完善他的UE引擎，使得他能移植到WII上，绝对不会再搞个新的引擎。 这种道理也不明白， 非要把商业因素牵涉进来，然后YY PS3上的游戏会移植WII， 这种YY有意思吗。莫非别的学不好， 就学会了自欺欺人？

[ 本帖最后由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-23 15:40 编辑 ]

第一页那个叫倍舒爽的发言呢？

蠢树同学居然还是食古不化，妄图高潮到底，境界颇为高也。
我以开始就说了引擎跨平台本来就是制作引擎的目的之一，可是LZ身为自称计算机系毕业的学生连这个也当大新闻而YY到高潮，我就觉得这LZ书读到那里去了？
    再者引擎跨平台与游戏跨平台没有任何联系。比如用SE自家开发的可以支持PS3/WII的引擎开发的FF13，不会因为引擎可以支持WII因而跨平台。LZ真X，连这都不明白。

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 08:40 发表


我记得你以前不是信誓旦旦地宣称所谓的小白引擎是wii绝对无法染指的高等引擎么？

现在怎么留了这么多没擦干净的东西？

只要缩水，还是可以的。:D

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 09:04 发表


哎~~~~se可是那忠心耿耿为了高清事业奉献终生的忠诚厂商，怎么能做此逆天缩水的不堪下作之事呢？这不是你一直引以为豪的引领时代的业界英雄的标板么？

你不是确认这是“最大的价值所在”么？好马不吃回头草， ...

之所以使得引擎可以支持WII,是想让WII那低端机能够竭尽全力发挥出性能，最大限度的体验高技术图像的游戏。

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 09:11 发表


可是汝大概忘了，“引擎因性能高低问题不支持”可是ps系ff党唯一能倚重的基于客观事实的立足点。也是唯一有力的说辞。

但现在既然已经公布所谓的公用引擎有对应wii的机能，那么所谓ff13“决不可能移植或移籍w ...

FF13绝不可能移植WII，并不是说WII上不能开发游戏（然后把这个游戏叫做FF）。而是说WII上无法做出符合FF发展历史，符合FF一贯风格，无比华丽，而又波澜壮阔的FF。
首先FF13一开始制作就宣称要充分发挥PS3的全部机能，让人们有当初看到FF7那样的感觉。以现在的眼光，要实现这些在WII上是不可能的。
其次，SE会为WII开发游戏，为了充分利用现有资源，使得WII游戏开发更加高效，而使得公司引擎支持WII，那是顺理成章的事情。但是傻子也明白引擎支持WII，不能改变WII客观存在的低级硬件性能这一客观事实，所有很明显，引擎只能是部分支持WII，并且是缩水。
最后，SE至今坚定的说FF13为PS3独占，其他所有消息不过是YY罢了，只增笑耳。

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 09:58 发表
而是说WII上无法做出符合FF发展历史，符合FF一贯风格，无比华丽，而又波澜壮阔的FF。

————————————

这是你们家给ff的定义？

ff的发展历史从七代开始才到ps，居然要由您来告诉我们ff的发展历史是 ...

希望您老看完后能够明白。。。
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166572
GDC 08: The Technology of Final Fantasy XIII
FFXIII on Wii? We discuss the possibilities of Square's new tech.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Like most Japanese developers, Square Enix has traditionally built the technology for each new game from scratch. While middleware solutions like the Unreal Engine have long been a favored solution for Western developers, the Square approach has been to tackle every new project from the ground up. But this is changing as development costs skyrocket; the upcoming The Last Remnant will be built on Unreal 3, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King for WiiWare was deliberately conceived to test the feasibility of building a game almost entirely with middleware tools and scripts. Even more ambitious is Final Fantasy XIII's proprietary White Engine, now called Crystal Tools. As Square Enix's first companywide technology platform, it's a full suite of authoring tools and runtime libraries for PlayStation 3, PC and Xbox 360. (There's even a bit of support for Wii in place, although the latter is still in development.) Not only is Crystal Tools the power behind FFXIII, but also Final Fantasy Versus XIII and the company's as-yet unannounced next-generation MMO RPG as well.
Taku Murata, Square Enix's general manager of research and development, spoke today at GDC about the evolution of this new technology. According to Murata, Crystal Tools' evolution began with 1997's Final Fantasy Tactics for PlayStation, which was created with the aid of the company's first real-time development preview system. Murata was impressed by the efficacy of these tools, and took them a step further for 2000's Vagrant Story, his first game in real-time 3D; it featured a unified tool to create cut-scenes and preview textures. Murata's next major project was PlayOnline, the company's online game technology (primarily used for Final Fantasy XI) -- the company's first attempt at creating a common platform. Then came Final Fantasy XII, whose sheer enormity of FFXII required the creation of separate, specialized tool sets.

Murata realized that standardizing the technology behind Square Enix's game development was a matter of necessity as budgets and requirements soar in the high-definition era and spearheaded the creation of an internal R&D group. The White Engine was announced before the advent of the R&D division, but soon after evolved into Crystal Tools. It's a development environment specifically tailored to Square Enix's trademark big-budget style, notably allowing fine control over character close-ups, lighting and cut-scene editing. We sat down with Murata after his panel to discuss both the philosophy and the specifics of Crystal Tools.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1UP: Your panel today was almost an evolution of your Final Fantasy XII talk last year. Does this reflect the philosophy behind FFXIII itself?

Taku Murata: Compared to FFXII, in terms of concept they're similar, but the technology is very different, because the current generation requires a higher level of quality. The data volume is much higher.

1UP: Crystal Tools represents something new for Square Enix, doesn't it? This sort of technology middleware is more popular among Western developers.

TM: Well, the American and Japanese markets are very different. In Japan, it used to be that the PS2 was huge, so as long as everything was being developed for PS2 everything was OK. But in the west, there were more hardware platforms to consider, such as Xbox and PC, and developers were forced to account for all of them. So in that sense, the western market has been more advanced than Japan. Since PS3's arrival, the market has become more multiplatform. Here, I have a slide that I didn't get to use in my presentation -- as you can see, in 2003 our top games were mostly PS2. But in 2007, the popular hardware in Japan was DS and Wii while the western market was more geared toward Xbox 360 and PC.

1UP: So what we're seeing in Crystal Tools is something more Japanese developers will be doing?

TM: Definitely -- anyone interested in competing in the worldwide market needs to consider a cross-platform approach. But it requires a large investment, so I don't know that all Japanese developers will be able to follow in our footsteps.

1UP: Crystal Tools is developed internally, but in the west licensing others' engines is also popular. Did you consider using middleware instead of building your own solution?

TM: We've considered licensing out Crystal Tools, but this brings with it certain considerations like supporting licensors...which isn't something we want to deal with at the moment.



1UP: Actually, I mean -- did you consider licensing someone else's technology?

TM: Actually, The Last Remnant uses the Unreal Engine, because we felt it was a good choice for a game targeted to the western market. However, for Final Fantasy XIII we chose to build our own tool set to reflect the culture of our creators. Crystal Tools is a means for our developers to express themselves. Ultimately, licensing isn't out of the question... it really just depends on the title.

1UP: I'm glad you mentioned Last Remnant... that seems like an Enix game. Even though the company is "Square Enix" I feel like you still create "Square" games and "Enix" games. Will Crystal Tools be used to build Enix games, or is it something specifically designed for games like Final Fantasy?

TM: Of course, Crystal Tools can be used for those games, but as you say, it's very "Square-like." An internal tool, really. Most Square games are developed inside the company, while Enix games are outsourced to other developers, so Crystal Tools wouldn't be appropriate for them.

1UP: I also noticed that the evolutionary path of Crystal Tools consisted of games and projects you worked on with Yasumi Matsuno. Is that simply because these games are your own frame of reference, or was this team simply ahead of the curve?

TM: Well, Matsuno's group, and particularly [art director] Hiroshi Minagawa, who is very influential... well, even myself, as I was the main programmer on those titles. We all share the same influences, so in a sense it's a very traditional, Square-like approach to production. But the process of Crystal Tools' creation has been very long, and we've been part of this paradigm shift, which you can see beginning with Tactics' real-time preview tool.

1UP: The most important aspect of Crystal Tools is that it's a multi-platform environment. How easy it is to move a game from one platform to another? Say, hypothetically, you wanted to port Final Fantasy XIII from PS3 to Xbox 360... how difficult would that be?

TM: Traditionally at Square we used to target just to a single platform and work deeply within that system, so it was very difficult to move a game to another system. But I'd say it's easier now. You still have factors like video memory and processing cores, so you have to adjust things like texture sizes. But Crystal Tools is a shared library, so it's much easier now. Those factors are already accounted for by the libraries, and it's possible to develop for different systems in parallel.

1UP: You mentioned at the panel that Nintendo's Wii is partially supported by Crystal Tools, but not completely. Why is Wii development lagging so far behind?

TM: The differences between Wii and 360, PS3 and PC are much bigger, and we're just not at the point in development where Wii support is completely ready.


1UP: Well, contrast Crystal Tools with Mr. Tsuchida's WiiWare team -- do you think what they're doing with Crystal Chronicles, using NintendoWare and third-party scripts, is a better fit for the platform?

TM: It really all comes down to the title in question and what you're doing with it. For instance, hypothetically -- don't take this seriously! -- if you wanted to create Final Fantasy XIII for PS3, Xbox 360, PC and Wii simultaneously, you'd need to use Crystal Tools.

1UP: Why "Crystal Tools"? And what happened to the White Engine? Was it absorbed? Abandoned?

TM: No, no, the White Engine wasn't abandoned. Actually, that was just a code name we used. Eventually we decided to give it a name that was more representative of Square. "Crystal" sounded nice, because it's something that's clear but can also be full of color -- and, of course, there's the Final Fantasy connection. So White Engine was version 1.0, which was released last year, and for version 1.1 we gave it the new name and a logo.
1UP: The presentation seemed to focus on tools for character creation and cut-scene direction. Is Crystal Tools also for combat and field graphics?

TM: Actually, one of the slides I presented shows field graphic elements being edited. Sorry, maybe I just focused too much on how cool the cut-scenes are! But yes, it's a visual framework for creating a whole game.

1UP: Crystal Tools encompasses everything except handheld and mobile games. Do you think there's a need for a similar sort of framework for these platforms?

TM: Well, Crystal Tools was mainly designed for large-scale development. That's why it targets PS3 and 360 -- systems where large volumes of data are used. For smaller systems, something like this wouldn't really be necessary. The tool is usable, but we don't have the libraries in place for portable systems and don't really see the need to go in that direction.
1UP: Were there any advantages to the old way of doing things, building each project from the ground up?

TM: Well, this framework is expandable, which is very useful as we have many different teams inside Square, and as I mentioned before Crystal Tools is tailored to our culture. So even if there's something that the tools don't do, something that doesn't exist in the current release, we can always add new abilities to account for these needs. In that sense, rather than building each title from scratch, we can continue to build better things on top of what we already have in place.

1UP: How has the parallel development of Crystal Tools impacted the development cycle of FFXIII or Versus XIII?

TM: Well, Crystal Tools will allow the development of games to be shortened, although in the end we'll probably be directing our energies in new ways, such as creating better visuals -- so in fact it may not shorten the development time required for our games. As for FFXIII, we've been working with the team as we develop Crystal Tools; while one group has focused on one thing we've focused on the other. So no, I don't think developing this system has complicated or delayed the game at all.

你自己嗑药过头而失态， 现在狡辩也无法掩盖自己真实含义。

首先LS的这位朋友依然还记得我写的这篇文章，我还是感到非常高兴。:D
当初我说：
那么现在SE全力开发的白引擎，明显是针对PS3来开发的，它不一定需要非常通用，因为它将作为公司内部今后最高引擎用于PS3游戏的开发，所以他可以针对PS3的各种特点加以优化，充分发挥PS3的机能。
我说的好像一点没错，白引擎就是这个的，只是现在成了version1.1 可以支持XBOX,PC，并且还准备让部分功能在WII上实现，而且现在改名字为Crystal Tools.  很明显Crystal Tools 中依然包含了白引擎中正对PS3独特开发的部分。

1UP: Why "Crystal Tools"? And what happened to the White Engine? Was it absorbed? Abandoned?

TM: No, no, the White Engine wasn't abandoned. Actually, that was just a code name we used. Eventually we decided to give it a name that was more representative of Square. "Crystal" sounded nice, because it's something that's clear but can also be full of color -- and, of course, there's the Final Fantasy connection. So White Engine was version 1.0, which was released last year, and for version 1.1 we gave it the new name and a logo

[ 本帖最后由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-25 14:07 编辑 ]

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 14:16 发表
SE的这些做法完全符合“为了最优秀的表达效果”这个一贯作风。

————————————————————

一贯以“为了最优秀的表达效果”作风为准则的se居然要把超级引擎小白变成同样支持wii的通用引擎Cryst ...

您老是老糊涂了吧？
首先，Crystal Tools是白引擎的升级，白引擎能做的，他都能做，并且肯定是更好，同时Crystal Tools扩展到了XBOX/PC。
您老却得出白引擎缩水成了只支持WII一样，无下限啊。。。
MATLIB能做及其复杂的数学运算， 难道就不能做1+1吗？  UE3.0+ 那天也能支持WII了， 难道UE3.0+开发的有先进视觉的游戏一下就成了WII水准吗？

引用:

原帖由 村上春樹 于 2008-2-25 14:55 发表


哈哈，你06年的自溺文怎沒提到PS3以外的平台呢？當時也沒人提到360/Wii啊。

tm的就沒啥人為UE3引擎特別為Geow碼字啊，還不是當初以為FF13與PS3將獨用白色引擎，所以歌功頌德與晃頭迷醉有了情感的表達對象？

你从那里看出来了06年的白引擎可以跨平台的？

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 14:53 发表
阁下还是看不明白啊~~~~~~~


“为了最优秀的表达效果”这个既然被ff神封为se的“一贯作风”，se为什么还要增加成本，去拼命研究“不最优秀表达效果”的wii的对应功能呢。是不是吃饱了撑的？这 ...

看来你始终坚持引擎跨平台，游戏就缩水了。对于您的认知水平，我已经无语了。:D
因为SE要开发WII上的游戏啊？ 可惜啊
Crystal Tools was mainly designed for large-scale development. That's why it targets PS3 and 360 -- systems where large volumes of data are used.
SE就是心有余而力不足， SE面对WII那破烂不堪的机能也无力回天。
The differences between Wii and 360, PS3 and PC are much bigger, and we're just not at the point in development where Wii support is completely ready.
最后的结果就是。。。
As Square Enix's first companywide technology platform, it's a full suite of authoring tools and runtime libraries for PlayStation 3, PC and Xbox 360. (There's even a bit of support for Wii in place, although the latter is still in development.)