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[电脑] 振华电源缩水可能带来的实际后果——挑主板/突然停电毁硬盘【略火星】

找电源的时候无意搜到的,文字全是转载,但有确凿证据,当然对已经知道的人而言,这略火星了

【高亮一点,楼主个人平时极少推振华金蝶,一个重要原因是:挑主板。何为挑主板?请往下看。

电脑通电后(没开机),电源待机电路工作,给主板输出5VSB,进入待机状态。按下开机键,主板会发送信号给电源,电源接到这个信号就全部启动、产生所有输出电压,然后反馈一个PG信号给主板,告诉主板“我OK了,你开机吧”,主板接到PG信号后启动——这是开机,这个过程的时序乱不得。关机时主板和电源也会相互通信,回到待机。那么突然断电呢?这时主板不能给关机信号,电源自己侦测到交流断电,会把PG信号转为另一种信号通知主板“没电了,赶紧快速复位”,同时电源应同时持续输出十几毫秒电力,保证复位成功,主板接到电源信号后,借由这个电力调度相关硬件复位,应对非正常关机,其中最重要的当属机械硬盘的磁头复位(否则一次不正常断电硬盘可能就挂了)。

再来看振华金蝶挑主板是个什么状况?就是时序混乱,迟迟不输出PG信号(过80Plus认证不考察时序),当搭配依赖电源PG信号的主板时(电源、主板参数里可不会写那么详细),就会出现多次启动(开机,主机亮灯,熄火,又亮,又熄…),原因就是主板等不到PG信号,关机再开。电源保持时间(holdup time)得通过测试才能知道,本文不展开,之后再说。】


http://post.smzdm.com/p/106088/

【11、PG信号

PG即“Power Good”,在Intel规范里叫“PWR_OK”。规范里原话是这么说的:该信号应保持高电平状态以告知(主板)+12V/+5V/+3.3V输出正常(偏移不超过5%)且电源储能完毕、能保证持续的功率、合规的功率输出。反之,当这几路信号的任何一路电压跌落超限后,或主要功率输出切断,该信号应转为低电平状态。一句话归纳就是:开机时通知主板“我很好”,电压突降或断电时通知主板“我不行了”。



以上是Intel规范里的各项时序,时序混乱的表现在前一篇经验里有提。

PG信号是很重要的参数,体现在DIY的外部表现要么是电源和主板兼容性问题,要么是开机反复重启。遗憾的是包括玩家堂、TECHPOWERUP在内的不少可靠的评测室都不测试该项目,所以相关评测比较难找。一般测试PG信号有两个步骤,一旦测试必测第一个,不一定测第二个:

·T3:各路电压稳定后100-500毫秒内电源能否发出PWR_OK信号(高电平)。

·在持续负载中降低输入电压,超过阈值后PWR_OK信号是否消失(低电平)。】


http://post.smzdm.com/p/107782/

【振华的输出信号电路就是这么水。。。。

金牌只管效率,不管信号时序,水了照样过80Plus金,不影响。

华擎属于那种严格依赖电源PG信号执行开机的主板(他老大华硕是另外一个极端,不需要PG信号)
因此,开机,电源输出,主板等待PG信号,等不到。。。关机。。。再开。。。”


前两年是这样,大部分的华硕主板都不需要PG信号。

其实是华硕信不过电源的PG信号,自己另起炉灶做了一套监控芯片在主板上。
这样在接山寨电源时,华硕主板的耐受力要好一些。
极端状况时,自我保护能力也要强一些(电源不做相应,主板也会自己停工)。


最近两年华硕也偷工减料了,不知道如何。】


(这是2011年的帖子)

http://www.itocp.com/bbs/thread-103952-1-1.html

【保持时间测试:4.2分(满分5)

  掉电保持时间(Hold-up Time)是指电源掉电之后电压输出值跌出范围允许的5%的时间,我们测量的是+12V、+5V和Power-OK(Power-Good)信号的保持时间。

  SSI EPS12V 2.92服务器电源设计指导中对输出电压保持时间的要求是电源在75%的负载下保持时间应该大于18ms,而Power-OK信号的保持时间要求是大于17ms。

  掉电保持时间如此受关注,是因为其很大程度上关系到硬件的寿命,Power-OK保持17ms意味着面临17ms以内的掉电情况时电脑能持续运行而不出现关机、重启的状况,而各路电压保持18ms或者更长的时间,是为了在掉电发生时各个硬件能够做出应急处理,比如机械硬盘的磁头归位,SSD的掉电保护。】


当年争议最多的冰山金蝶战斗版450W,在2013年送测的时候,PG信号保持时间以及转换效率都是合格的,当然这是2013年的评测,现在还有没有进一步缩水,没人评测,这算没确凿证据,但下面一个是有确凿证据的

http://www.expreview.com/27001-3.html

Tomshardware在2015年评测的一款振华550瓦80Plus金牌全模组电源,PG信号保持时间直接不及格,评测给出的原因是电容不行,也就是说给国外媒体送测的版本都有问题了

http://www.tomshardware.com/revi ... d-550w-power-supply,4416-10.html

方案类似的EVGA SuperNOVA 550 G2,也存在相同的问题

http://www.tomshardware.com/revi ... 550-g2-power-supply,4244-10.html

https://linustechtips.com/main/t ... frequent-brownouts/

简单来说,如果你用的主板严重依赖PG信号,比如华擎,或者担心断电硬盘丢数据,那就得小心点了

虽然拿不出直接证据证明国内几个到今天还在卖的主流型号逐渐缩水缩成PG不合格,但是2015年末给国外的金牌全模组依然有这个问题,所以对同档次乃至更低端的就不要有什么信心了

[ 本帖最后由 Nemo_theCaptain 于 2016-11-19 01:19 编辑 ]


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引用:
原帖由 妹妹的G点 于 2016-11-19 00:48 发表
posted by wap, platform: iPhone
买了650w的evga g2电源不知道会不会出这个问题
dizhang大大好像比较稀饭振华电源
我也不是那种因为振华缩了就无条件喷的人
哪怕是这类人也很少拿出“缩了会导致什么问题”的证据
如果缩了不会导致问题,那就是合理Cost Down,我能接受,毕竟就算是缩过的,性价比也挺高
但是现在出了问题,就是另一码事了

也不是说不能用,就是提个醒,如果碰到挑主板的情况,比如无法一次正常开机,开机过程自动重启
或者担心断电影响硬盘的人
对于振华就慎重选择吧

我也说了,目前还拿不出证据证明国内那几个热销型号缩成这样了,因为近年没人重新评测
但是去年给国外的金牌全模新品都有这个问题,我是没什么信心

[ 本帖最后由 Nemo_theCaptain 于 2016-11-19 01:19 编辑 ]



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引用:
原帖由 amk4amk4 于 2016-11-19 01:04 发表
posted by wap, platform: Firefox
就说一点吧。硬盘磁头归位机制不是靠电源的,几十毫秒的保持时间也根本不够磁头归位的。。。

本帖最后由 amk4amk4 于 2016-11-19 01:04 通过手机版编辑  
我把这些发出来的目的就是在论坛上讨论一下
磁头的机制我确实不了解,但你确定这种设计真的没问题,不会损害任何硬件?

Tomshardware表示对PG信号的问题非常失望:

The hold-up time tests don't go well. Not only is the measured hold-up less than 16ms (the ATX spec's minimum), but the Power_OK signal drops after, and not before, the PSU's rails go out of spec. This means that your motherboard gets a false power-good signal from the PSU. Indeed, we measured the +12V rail floating at around 10.8V when Power_OK dropped to zero. This is a very low voltage level that applies lots of stress to the voltage regulators of components fed by +12V.
In a high-end PSU like this one, we didn't expect such nasty behavior. We have to admit that we're very disappointed by Super Flower's decision to drop the power-good signal so late, which is probably done to give the false impression that the hold-up time lasts longer. By the end of our review, this is going to cost to this PSU a lot of performance points. Whereas it might have received an award for performance, there's no way it will now.

http://www.tomshardware.com/revi ... m-550w-power-supply,4281-4.html

类似方案的评论,明确提到断电时可能会引发问题

The only major downside that we were able to spot was the low hold-up time, which can be a problem in some scenarios, including brown-outs or sudden power cuts.

http://www.tomshardware.com/revi ... 550-g2-power-supply,4244-10.html

另一个帖子的评论,表示这种设计是有可能损害硬件的

AC_LOSS to PWR_OK_OFF

When there is AC loss, the voltage outputs of the power supply begin to drop to lower numbers. It is the job of the circuitry of the power supply to detect this and shut off the unit before the voltages go below  the ATX specification. Basically, under-voltage protection. Before any of those voltages go out of specification, the power supply is supposed to cut the PWR_OK signal. The PWR_OK signal is a cable in the main 24-pin ATX cable used to communicate with the motherboard. When on, it's telling the motherboard that its voltages are all safe. When the PWR_OK signal is cut, circuitry is supposed to shut off the power supply as fast as possible so the voltages don't go out of specification.

The latest testing methods in renowned power supply reviews are AC_LOSS to PWR_OK tests. This tests the duration of time it takes from there being AC loss to the computer dropping the PWR_OK signal. So, for example, if there is a power outage, your computer is under full load, and your power supply has an AC_LOSS to PWR_OK time of 18ms, then in 18ms your power supply will tell your motherboard, "Hey! Voltages are about to get low. Better shut me off now." And then the unit will be shut down quite rapidly once the PWR_OK signal is dropped.

There is a catch though: some power supply units drop the PWR_OK signal after the voltages go out of specification. This means when there is AC_LOSS, the power supply will continue providing the computer with energy as those voltages go deeper and deeper below the ATX specification. Once it gets to a certain low point, then it'll cut the PWR_OK signal, after harm has already been done. In a way, this is a cheating method used by power supply manufacturers to do well on old hold-up time tests that check the duration of AC_LOSS to PSU shutdown time. This cheating method is also dangerous.

https://linustechtips.com/main/t ... frequent-brownouts/

[ 本帖最后由 Nemo_theCaptain 于 2016-11-19 01:31 编辑 ]


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