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标题: [新闻] 纽约时报评论：mgs4比halo来的更有内涵？ [打印本页]

作者: wuqu 时间: 2008-6-23 16:00 标题: 纽约时报评论：mgs4比halo来的更有内涵？

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/2 ... gin&oref=slogin
全文不翻译了，大家应该都看得懂。。评论结尾部分比较搞。。halo与之相比只是个让你疯狂按动按钮杀人的游戏而已。

Ideas & Trends
The Shootout Over Hidden Meanings in a Video Game

Konami/Associated Press, left; Joao Silva for The New York Times
Prepared for Combat A scene from Metal Gear Solid 4. Is there a message about American domination? At right, real life in Iraq.

By DAVE ITZKOFF
Published: June 22, 2008
If there’s a subject that’s as contentious as war itself, it might be a video game about war.
It’sbeen just over a week since the release of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns ofthe Patriots, the latest chapter in the popular video game series abouta covert military agent named Solid Snake. And already, fans areexchanging rhetorical fusillades on the Internet, teasing out what theunderlying political and philosophical messages of Metal Gear Solid 4might be.
Encrypted within this discussion is a moresophisticated argument about the nascent medium of video games. Can ittell a story as satisfyingly as a work of cinema or literature?
Isthe Sisyphean mission of Solid Snake — to rid the world of a roboticnuclear tank called Metal Gear — a parable about the futility of war orabout its necessity? A critique of America’s domination of the globalstage? A metaphor for the struggle between determinism and free will?If the creator of the Metal Gear Solid series, Hideo Kojima, hasanswers to these questions, he isn’t telling.
“He doesn’t interview very much,” said Leigh Alexander, an associate editor at Kotaku.com,a video game blog. “Sometimes he will speak about it, and other timesit’s left to the critical peanut gallery to disassemble what hisintentions might have been.”
Devoted players have no shortage ofopinions about what Mr. Kojima’s games are saying. The original MetalGear Solid, released in 1998 for Sony’sPlayStation console, combined stealth combat with cinematicintermission scenes, full of dialogue and imagery that directly invokedthe bombing of Hiroshima and the birth of atomic weapons. The gamecalled attention to the scourge of nuclear proliferation, and forcedplayers to consider the morality of their own lethal actions.
Thesemessages were complicated by a pair of sequels: Metal Gear Solid 2:Sons of Liberty, released in late 2001, introduced a shadowysupernational group called the Patriots, so powerful that even thepresident of the United States answers to it. (A commentary on thedisputed 2000 election? The cabal theories of post-9/11 politics?) AndMetal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, released in 2004, explored the coldwar origins of its characters, whose personal stories are intertwinedwith the rise of the military-industrial complex.
“This is ajust-off-center world that gamers can almost believe in,” said RobSmith, the editor in chief of PlayStation: The Official Magazine. “Allthe important world history of the 20th century matches up in ways thatsay, ‘If we’d gone down this path then, this is what we’d now befacing.’ ”
Metal Gear Solid 4, released for the PlayStation 3console, further upends traditional notions of heroism and villainy: inthis game Solid Snake (think James Bond meets Rambo) has agedconsiderably, as have several of his archenemies; the forces he battlesare not the soldiers of identifiable nations but the mercenaries on thepayroll of private military companies. “The issue of good guys and badguys doesn’t exist anymore,” Mr. Smith said. “It’s just: here’s theguys.”
Even as gamers ponder what this symbolism means (an allegory of war in the era of Blackwater Worldwideand stateless enemy combatants?), they are also debating whether thestory of Metal Gear Solid 4 is a satisfying one, and if itsstorytelling techniques are used effectively.
“You get socaught up in just figuring out, Does this story need to be here?” saidStephen Totilo, an MTV News reporter who covers video games. “That’snot a question you wind up asking yourself when you’re reading a novel.Of course the story needs to be there! Otherwise you don’t have anovel.”
Players like Shawn Elliott, the senior executive editor of the gaming Web site 1up.com,have criticized the game for its preachiness, and for its reliance onlengthy cinematic interludes that can run 30 minutes or longer.
“Itcan basically become a movie for long stretches,” Mr. Elliott said.“It’s not necessarily a game catching up with movies, but a game kindof cheating and using a language that isn’t native to its own medium.”
Othersobject to the sheer density of the story, spanning seven games releasedover 20 real-world years, that players are asked to master. “Let’s justsay it’s not something any of us gamers are nearly as used to doingwhen we’re playing a game as when we’re reading a novel,” Mr. Totilosaid.
Players can skip over the storytelling elements in Metal Gear Solid and still play the game.
But unrepentant fans like Ms. Alexander of Kotaku.com argue that,coherent or not, the narrative of Metal Gear Solid 4 is an inseparablepart of the “package experience” that makes it an evolutionary stepbeyond fare like Halo 3, a first-person shooting game designed to soothe itchy trigger fingers.
MetalGear Solid, Ms. Alexander said, “has the characters and the narrative,the symbolism and the metaphors, and all of the lore that ties ittogether,” whereas Halo is popular “not because of any of itsperipheral elements or anything else about it, other that you shootpeople.”

[ 本帖最后由 wuqu 于 2008-6-23 16:23 编辑 ]

作者: jianickwu 时间: 2008-6-23 16:03

A9那边已经吵翻了,

LZ惟恐天下不乱.

作者: RestlessDream 时间: 2008-6-23 16:03

谈的不是内涵

是 narrative

还是叙事问题

作者: carnon 时间: 2008-6-23 16:14

这篇文章也很有内涵，单词黏合，这是什么风格。。。

作者: dogsoldier 时间: 2008-6-23 16:15

其实不能单说4，MGS系列就是这样的风格

作者: RestlessDream 时间: 2008-6-23 16:20

引用:

原帖由 carnon 于 2008-6-23 16:14 发表
这篇文章也很有内涵，单词黏合，这是什么风格。。。

这个是复制黏贴的问题

不过带hyphen的复合单词，是Greg时期GameSpot评论的一贯风格

作者: carnon 时间: 2008-6-23 16:37

不过小岛在这游戏里说出了自己的观点，什么是战争，为什么战争，战争带来什么
让处于伊战反思期的美国佬接触这样的故事，很难不high起来

[ 本帖最后由 carnon 于 2008-6-23 16:41 编辑 ]

作者: 责任编辑 时间: 2008-6-23 16:58

完全两种东西啊

作者: 苍月 时间: 2008-6-23 17:31

所谓内涵，其实就是剧情，花钱让高人写剧本不是不行，而是是否有必要的问题。小岛的梦想可能是做导演吧。

作者: txtp 时间: 2008-6-23 17:57

这个不用它评也知道，明摆在那，除非是那种选择性失明的三红五元下限饭！

作者: 恋妖壶 时间: 2008-6-23 18:01

这帖真闷，更你们个更欢乐的去处~

http://bbs.a9vg.com/read.php?tid=919701&fpage=1

作者: westlost 时间: 2008-6-23 18:08

halo不是有好几本书来着....这还不叫内涵？

作者: 紫龍 时间: 2008-6-23 18:12

闲得蛋疼

作者: MK2 时间: 2008-6-23 18:13

如果halo把几本小说里面的情节都做在游戏里面播片，内涵指数比MGS只高不低，不过幸好没做进去。

作者: MJ3 时间: 2008-6-23 18:16

引用:

原帖由 MK2 于 2008-6-23 18:13 发表
如果halo把几本小说里面的情节都做在游戏里面播片，内涵指数比MGS只高不低，不过幸好没做进去。

这智商....

作者: KARUTO 时间: 2008-6-23 18:18

其实我很想问一句，MGS系列的内涵是啥？有谁告诉我么？

作者: MK2 时间: 2008-6-23 18:23

MGS的内涵是举世无双的，简单来说，游戏过程中经常会无厘头的放上一段思想教育片，让你感悟战争、感悟人生、感悟上帝、感悟火星人。

作者: tianxianbaobao 时间: 2008-6-23 18:38

纽约时报——世界权威媒体，其观点的正确度不容置疑

HALO的本质被完全揭露

作者: 恋妖壶 时间: 2008-6-23 18:54

引用:

原帖由 tianxianbaobao 于 2008-6-23 18:38 发表
纽约时报——世界权威媒体，其观点的正确度不容置疑

HALO的本质被完全揭露

纽约时报评论 PS3

Video Games
A Weekend Full of Quality Time With PlayStation 3
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By SETH SCHIESEL
Published: November 20, 2006
Howard Stringer, you have a problem. Your company’s new video game system just isn’t that great.

The controller of Sony PlayStation 3 looks like earlier ones.
Ever since Mr. Stringer took the helm last year at Sony, the struggling if still formidable electronics giant, the world has been hearing about how the coming PlayStation 3 would save the company, or at least revitalize it. Even after Microsoft took the lead in the video-game wars a year ago with its innovative and powerful Xbox 360, Sony blithely insisted that the PS3 would leapfrog all competition to deliver an unsurpassed level of fun.

Put bluntly, Sony has failed to deliver on that promise.

Measured in megaflops, gigabytes and other technical benchmarks, the PlayStation 3 is certainly the world’s most powerful game console. It falls far short, however, of providing the world’s most engaging overall entertainment experience. There is a big difference, and Sony seems to have confused one for the other.

The PS3, which was introduced in North America on Friday with a hefty $599 price tag for the top version, certainly delivers gorgeous graphics. But they are not discernibly prettier than the Xbox 360’s. More important, the whole PlayStation 3 system is surprisingly clunky to use and simply does not provide many basic functions that users have come to expect, especially online.

I have spent more than 30 hours using the PlayStation 3 over the last week or so and may have played more different games on the system — 13 — than probably anyone outside of Sony itself. Sony did not activate the PS3’s online service until just before the Friday debut. Over the weekend a clear sense of disappointment with the PlayStation 3 emerged from many gamers.

“What’s weird is that the PS3 was originally supposed to come out in the spring, and here it came out in the fall, and it still doesn’t feel finished,” Christopher Grant, managing editor of Joystiq, one of the world’s biggest video-game blogs, said on the telephone Saturday night. “It’s really not the all-star showing they should have had at launch. Sony is playing catch-up in a lot of ways now, not just in terms of sales but in terms of the basic functionality and usability of the system.”

Sadly for Sony, the best way to explain how the PlayStation 3 falls short is to explain how different it is to use than its main competition, Xbox 360. When I reviewed the 360 last year, I wrote: “Twelve minutes after opening the box, I had created my nickname, was in a game of Quake 4 and thought, ‘This can’t be this easy.’ ”

I never felt that way using the PlayStation 3. With the PS3, 12 minutes after opening the box I realized that Sony inexplicably does not include cables to connect the machine to a high-definition television. Keep in mind that one of Sony’s main selling points has been that the PS3 plays Blu-Ray high-definition movie discs. But high-definiton cables? Sold separately. The Xbox 360, by contrast, ships with one cable that can connect to either a standard or high-definition set.

Then, before you are even using the PS3, you have to connect the “wireless” controller to the base unit with a USB cable so they can recognize each other. If you bring your PS3 controller to a friend’s house, you’ll have to plug back in again. The 360’s wireless controllers are always just that, wireless.

If there is one thing one would expect Sony to get perfect, though, it would be music. Wrong. Sure, you can plug in your digital music player and the PS3 will play the tunes. But as soon as you go into a game, the music stops. By contrast, one of the things I’ve always enjoyed most on the Xbox 360 is being able to listen to my own music while playing Pebble Beach or driving my virtual Ferrari. Doesn’t seem too complicated, but the PS3 can’t do it.

In that sense it often feels as if the PlayStation 3 can’t walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. In the PS3’s online store (which feels like a slow Web page) you can access movie trailers and trial versions of new games, but when you actually download the 600-megabyte files, you’ll be stuck watching a progress bar crawl across the screen for 20 or 40 minutes. Astonishingly, you can’t download in the background while you go do something that’s more fun (like play a game). On the Xbox 360, not only are files downloaded seamlessly in the background, but you can also shut off the machine, turn it on later, and the download will resume automatically.

The PS3’s whole online experience feels tacked-on and unpolished. On the Xbox 360 each user has a single unified friends list, so you can track your friends and communicate with them easily, no matter what game you are in. On the PlayStation 3 most games have their own separate friends list and some have no friends function at all. There is a master list as well, but in order to communicate with anyone on it, you have to quit the game you are playing.

There are some high points. The multi-player battles in Resistance: Fall of Man are excellent. The arcade-style action in the downloadable Blast Factor is suitably frantic.

But the list of the PS3’s disappointments remains, from its undersupported voice chat to its maddening cellphone-like text messaging system. (In frustration I ended up plugging in a USB keyboard.) Overall, Sony seems to have put a lot of effort into cramming as much silicon horsepower under the hood as possible but to have forgotten that all the transistors in the world can’t make someone smile.

And so it is a bit of a shock to realize that on the video game front Microsoft and Sony are moving in exactly the opposite directions one might expect given their roots. Microsoft, the prototypical PC company, has made the Xbox 360 into a powerful but intuitive, welcoming, people-friendly system. Sony’s PlayStation 3, on the other hand, often feels like a brawny but somewhat recalcitrant specialized computer. (Sony is even telling users to wait for future software patches to fix some of the PS3’s deficiencies.) The thing is, if people want to use a computer, they’ll use a computer.

Through the decades of the Walkman and the Trinitron television, Sony was renowned as the global master of easy-to-use, seamlessly powerful consumer electronics. But recently Sony seems to have lost its way, first in digital music players, in which it ceded the ergonomic high ground to Apple’s iPod, and now in home-game consoles. For now Sony’s technologists seem to have won out over the people who study fun.

As a practical matter, given the limited quantities Sony has been able to manufacture, the PlayStation 3 will surely remain sold out throughout the holiday season. If you can’t find one, don’t fret. Sony still has a lot of work to do. As Mr. Grant of Joystiq put it: “Maybe in six months it’ll be finished. Maybe by next fall I’ll be able to do all the cool stuff. I’m still kind of waiting.”
原文地址：http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/2 ... r=1&oref=slogin

原文重点翻译如下:

1.PS3标榜蓝光光碟与高画质影像输出，但玩家打开包装盒却没有高画质传输线可以连接，须另外购买

2.无线把手第一次使用需要用USB线跟主机连接认证，如果带到朋友家使用也要再重插一次

3.PS3无法在进行游戏时播放自己想听的音乐

4.PS3无法於背景下载档案，你在下载档案时只能看着萤幕的下载条发呆，大档案时你可能要发呆个半小时，无法中断续传也无法玩游戏

5.PS3 好友名单与每个游戏的好友名单完全无关，每个游戏玩家须个别建立好友，也无法於游戏中邀请原本的好友加入游戏

6.语音交谈功能做的极令人火大(未说明是如何糟糕)

总结 : PS3的确拥有非常高效能的硬体，但无法置信的缺乏许多基本的功能

谜之声: 上面的每一点某X机都做得很好呀
=======================================================================================
终于被我逮到宝宝了~

作者: waterfirestart 时间: 2008-6-23 20:49

是你逮到他了还是他逮到你了。

作者: RestlessDream 时间: 2008-6-23 20:52

引用:

原帖由 恋妖壶 于 2008-6-23 18:54 发表

纽约时报评论 PS3

Video Games
A Weekend Full of Quality Time With PlayStation 3
Sign In to E-Mail This Print Reprints Save

By SETH SCHIESEL
Published: November 20, 2006
Howard Stringer, ...

连天线宝宝的菊花都不放过……

你这是虐童啊……

作者: 江西恐龙 时间: 2008-6-23 21:32

MGS4玩的时候挺感动的，真的。觉得战争太可怕了。

HALO玩的时候是那种大战外星人的科幻故事。典型的英雄主义，没有阴谋小人，没有爱情，没有背叛……只有杀到结局。

论内涵的话…………估计MGS4确实要胜之。

作者: 江西恐龙 时间: 2008-6-23 21:34

引用:

原帖由 KARUTO 于 2008-6-23 18:18 发表
其实我很想问一句，MGS系列的内涵是啥？有谁告诉我么？

1代结局独白

作者: wuqu 时间: 2008-6-23 22:20

恐龙蛮喜欢mgs4的嘛§

作者: Dneod 时间: 2008-6-23 22:38

引用:

原帖由 恋妖壶 于 2008-6-23 18:54 发表

原文重点翻译如下:

1.PS3标榜蓝光光碟与高画质影像输出，但玩家打开包装盒却没有高画质传输线可以连接，须另外购买

2.无线把手第一次使用需要用USB线跟主机连接认证，如果带到朋友家使用也要再重插一次

3.PS3无法在进行游戏时播放自己想听的音乐

4.PS3无法於背景下载档案，你在下载档案时只能看着萤幕的下载条发呆，大档案时你可能要发呆个半小时，无法中断续传也无法玩游戏

5.PS3 好友名单与每个游戏的好友名单完全无关，每个游戏玩家须个别建立好友，也无法於游戏中邀请原本的好友加入游戏

6.语音交谈功能做的极令人火大(未说明是如何糟糕)

总结 : PS3的确拥有非常高效能的硬体，但无法置信的缺乏许多基本的功能

谜之声: 上面的每一点某X机都做得很好呀

很多都改好了...系统升级之后

作者: 首斩破沙罗- 时间: 2008-6-23 22:55

19楼发那些东西是要证明纽约时报是客观饭？

作者: RestlessDream 时间: 2008-6-23 23:10

引用:

原帖由 江西恐龙 于 2008-6-23 21:32 发表
MGS4玩的时候挺感动的，真的。觉得战争太可怕了。

HALO玩的时候是那种大战外星人的科幻故事。典型的英雄主义，没有阴谋小人，没有爱情，没有背叛……只有杀到结局。

论内涵的话…………估计MGS4确实要胜之。

恐龙，你对Halo的理解原来就是大战外星人……

作者: skyxia 时间: 2008-6-23 23:19

光环的内容是：有比大战外星人更重要的事

作者: 黑龙 时间: 2008-6-24 00:15

希望以后这些权威媒体不要再这样刺激反索饭了，他们已经快崩溃了，太不人道了

作者: Jonsoncao 时间: 2008-6-24 00:26

引用:

原帖由黑龙于 2008-6-24 00:15 发表
希望以后这些权威媒体不要再这样刺激反索饭了，他们已经快崩溃了，太不人道了

如果按照你的推理的话，你自己是不是已经崩溃的习惯了

作者: coolswan 时间: 2008-6-24 01:01

没翻译，求叉包给翻译一下……

为什么日语帖底下就一堆没翻译要抽的英语没有！

也照顾一下我等英语文盲不好么

作者: 索尼来也 时间: 2008-6-24 01:02

引用:

原帖由 coolswan 于 2008-6-24 01:01 发表
没翻译，求叉包给翻译一下……

为什么日语帖底下就一堆没翻译要抽的英语没有！

也照顾一下我等英语文盲不好么

太小众了

作者: 黑龙 时间: 2008-6-24 01:03

引用:

原帖由 Jonsoncao 于 2008-6-24 00:26 发表

如果按照你的推理的话，你自己是不是已经崩溃的习惯了

我不是推理，我只是在描述目前tg战区的事实，这里到处可见某些人怀着绝望的情绪而妄图把mgs4批倒批臭。这种对mgs4必欲除之而后快的姿态，反映出了mgs4对他们精神上造成的打击有多大。
如果说日本fami通的评价他们还可以不屑一顾的将其斥为“日本人故意偏袒日本游戏”的话，那么来自一向被软饭们奉若神明的360大本营美国市场的权威媒体gs、ign、nytime对mgs4的评价实在是让他们感到了无力和绝望，就像被同阵营的战友从背后捅了一刀，那种郁闷和怨念是无法用语言描述的，总而言之，这对软饭们的打击实在太大了。

作者: 索尼来也 时间: 2008-6-24 01:05

引用:

原帖由黑龙于 2008-6-24 01:03 发表

我不是推理，我只是在描述目前tg战区的事实，这里到处可见某些人怀着绝望的情绪而妄图把mgs4批倒批臭。这种对mgs4必欲除之而后快的姿态，反映出了mgs4对他们精神上造成的打击有多大。
如果说日本fami通的评价他们 ...

说的太好了

:D :D

作者: coolswan 时间: 2008-6-24 01:06

引用:

原帖由 索尼来也 于 2008-6-24 01:02 发表

太小众了

我觉得非常大众

很多人其实一篇文章里P都看不懂一个，最多看个介词of and for啥的

但因为是英语，不好意思说自己看不懂罢了……

作者: 索尼来也 时间: 2008-6-24 01:07

引用:

原帖由 coolswan 于 2008-6-24 01:06 发表

我觉得非常大众

很多人其实一篇文章里P都看不懂一个，最多看个介词of and for啥的

但因为是英语，不好意思说自己看不懂罢了……

4级过了应该能看个大意把

作者: coolswan 时间: 2008-6-24 01:12

日语侵蚀了我8年时光，英语已然成为与阿拉伯语韩语并驾齐驱看不懂语种了……

作者: 索尼来也 时间: 2008-6-24 01:16

反正游戏都有日版，玩游戏够了

作者: 屠狗者 时间: 2008-6-24 01:42

内涵个JB

作者: west2046 时间: 2008-6-24 06:49

引用:

原帖由黑龙于 2008-6-24 01:03 发表

我不是推理，我只是在描述目前tg战区的事实，这里到处可见某些人怀着绝望的情绪而妄图把mgs4批倒批臭。这种对mgs4必欲除之而后快的姿态，反映出了mgs4对他们精神上造成的打击有多大。
如果说日本fami通的评价他们 ...

老师知道当年还有两个游戏是拿到大满贯的？那两个游戏的主机老师知道吗？

作者: 风清阳 时间: 2008-6-24 08:45

a9的0094是这里的谁？经常被挖坟嘛？

作者: mesmer 时间: 2008-6-24 09:59

都是神作，根本没可比性，吵个P！！

作者: 先知 时间: 2008-6-24 10:42

没内涵的JB~~再有内涵的东西也只能看到JB

[ 本帖最后由先知于 2008-6-24 11:41 编辑 ]

作者: Virtue 时间: 2008-6-24 11:39

内涵个JJ哦....
还对软饭打击. 打击个屁
XO上好的独占游戏多的是,
PS3出了N久终于有了一个象样的独占游戏
但也就这一个MGS4而已...

S青也算是可以吐口气...但是吐也吐的收敛点.
比来比去比什么不好, 最后还搞来比内涵...
MGS4有什么内涵好说的...我还说GTA4特有内涵呢...

你说去比较哪个故事更吸引人, 那还可以说说...

作者: jinwei8108 时间: 2008-6-24 14:33

好吧，我承认halo3通关画面让我很有感觉。。。。

作者: 海西恐龙 时间: 2008-6-24 14:41

大家过家家玩多了就和小伙伴一起玩自己喜欢的捉迷藏多好。为了过家家游戏吵个不停！！

欢迎光临 TGFC Lifestyle (http://bbs.tgfcer.com/)