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原帖由 chenke 于 2025-10-18 23:30 发表


IRREEL 0.018我在土星实体机和Mister FPGA土星单内存核心上都测试过，光影出众，无明显拖慢。
但我在Mister FPGA土星单内存核心上测试DOA，当遇到 霞VS霞 或者 霞VS元福老头 的场景时（霞选择裙子服装）就会变得 ...

……你要这么比的话那土星版虚幻DEMO中宽阔场景里战一群敌人时土星实机就会拖慢，FPS游戏不像格斗游戏图形输出那么稳定、从始至终就只有一个背景两个人物。

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原帖由 chenke 于 2025-10-18 23:30 发表
...
以上测试可以看出：在DOA里，如果两个有裙子摆动、辫子摆动效果的角色同屏时，基本耗尽了土星的算力资源，其消耗是大于IRREEL 0.018的。（目前Mister FPGA土星核心已通过了100%的土星硬件兼容性测试，单内存版和双内存版主要是总线带宽模拟上的区别）

我觉着吧、判断一部游戏机的机能极限就不应该用格斗游戏做主要衡量标准，尤其是SS/PS/N64那一代主机、3D格斗游戏基本都是两个多边形人物+2D背景。

全3D场景的多边形和贴图空间定位对算力的要求远高于堆砌出一两个精致的3D模型，对比土星移植MODEL2游戏的效果就很明显：移植格斗游戏把背景换成2D图层能保持60fps，移植赛车游戏必须用3D场景那就没有超过30fps的。

事实上别说土星、就是PS跟N64上面也没有几个全3D游戏能超过30fps的，而对比竞品土星在3D性能方面的差距显而易见、倒不如说它格斗类游戏3D画面是差距最小的。

[ 本帖最后由 KainX 于 2025-10-19 01:25 编辑 ]

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原帖由 @KainX  于 2025-10-18 14:24 发表
MODEL2版怎么可能没有光照，只不过都是固定方向的白色平行光，PS版高洛德着色看起来效果更明显而已。

那是画上去的，动起来明暗完全不带变的

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原帖由 @jk02  于 2025-10-18 17:14 发表
同机能下半透明确实是重要特效，所以强大的CPS2、3居然没有半透明，某些网点就显得很突兀，当然不一定非得活动块半透明

cps3有半透明的，赤色大地最明显

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原帖由 KainX 于 2025-10-19 01:18 发表

我觉着吧、判断一部游戏机的机能极限就不应该用格斗游戏做主要衡量标准，尤其是SS/PS/N64那一代主机、3D格斗游戏基本都是两个多边形人物+2D背景。

全3D场景的多边形和贴图空间定位对算力的要求远高于堆砌出一两 ...

xl2大神做的土星虚幻，全3D场景帧数稳在10-15fps吧，但不至于完全卡成幻灯片，但我说的DOA里两个裙子霞对战，是直接卡成幻灯片的，以上在同样的Mister FPGA单内存核心下运行。
所以明显看得出DOA把土星算力耗净了，国外有人详细分析了的：http://www.davidgamizjimenez.com/inpositivegames/sega-saturn-al-limite-ii/

引用:

• Dead or Alive

Launched in the 1997-10-09 finals of the 3rd wave of Japanese developments. In this title we can see a real milestone in the management and use of the SS. A game that comes from the Model 2A-CRX / 2B-CRX. Of a manifest superiority. Tecmo runs a sublime port. Where the models, textures, colors and animations are traced to the original, except the lighting and animated human shadows. And of course this 3D funds. These last ones replaced by several 2D planes of the VDP2 executed with intelligence and happening really unnoticed very well, excepting some stage like the monastery. The floor again is drawn with a rotated plane of the VDP2 with a quality equivalent to the recreational one. The final resolution and smoothness are the sign that shows in this game and in the conversion. It is the point that unites them both. Putting the maximum resolution that the SS can (VDP1 703×479, final VDP2 to 704×480) to 60FPS like a rock. As we have already discussed, arriving at this resolution in the VDP1 entails only being able to have 8BPP of color and losing the Color Functions like the Gouraud of the VDP1. The great work of textures in DOA makes it almost imperceptible that there is no dynamic lighting by source in the models. With regard to the use of processors we are facing the only game of these characteristics that takes advantage of all processors for 3D. Thus, we find a use of the double SH2 plus the SCU-DSP, the latter with a 100% use of memory and 45.5% of records. In sound DSP we find a 90% memory usage. Regarding the memory use of the system, it is 74%, with 65% of the VDP1 and 65% of the VDP2, of 87.5% of the main RAM. Finally, the port has an FMV intro, as was usual on the other hand, it uses DUCK compression (Video / audio) with an acceptable quality of resolution (304×176 20FPS) and sound (Stereo 22Khz) but at 15bit color with dithering in a VDP2 layer without zoom, wasting both the possibility of maximum color, 32bits, and scaling 100% of the screen to make the video as large as possible. The video as it is common in Namco is of a high bill. Already if we compare with the later version of PSX, the differences are wide. From the design direction, more modern in the case of PS1, as in the spectacularity of the game. Both are, but in a totally different way. Both exploit the machine, but with different objectives. In PS1, dynamic lighting is used, with human shadows and Gouraud shading. A resolution and super color 512×480 to 16bit with double interlaced at 60FPS. Without reaching the definition of SS, but with more beautiful graphics in another sense. It also loses geometry in the fighters and content in the scenarios, the latter being quite flatter, and the ground with clear perspective error, where in the SS it is perfect. In conclusion two large, but very different, versions.

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原帖由 jnray 于 2025-10-19 10:30 发表
posted by wap, platform: Android
那是画上去的，动起来明暗完全不带变的

当然是有变化的，只不过平面着色是一个面一个面变的：https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiJ9ym1h04

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原帖由 jnray 于 2025-10-19 10:33 发表
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cps3有半透明的，赤色大地最明显

CPS3没有标准的半透明，但是有MD那种明暗处理机能，所以跟MD一样、活用明暗处理可以模拟半透明效果。

[ 本帖最后由 KainX 于 2025-10-19 12:13 编辑 ]

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原帖由 Nemo_theCaptain 于 2025-10-18 01:33 PM 发表

如果宏观来看整个系列的话
DOA3/DOAU之后系列的场景都在倒退……
无论是板垣自己做的DOA4还是新堀洋平的DOA5/6场景都不如初代Xbox

3感觉制作成本明显更高，但是没查到相关数据，拳皇也是类似问题3D化之前越到后面给人感觉越简陋

引用:

原帖由 chenke 于 2025-10-19 11:26 发表


xl2大神做的土星虚幻，全3D场景帧数稳在10-15fps吧，但不至于完全卡成幻灯片，但我说的DOA里两个裙子霞对战，是直接卡成幻灯片的，以上在同样的Mister FPGA单内存核心下运行。
所以明显看得出DOA把土星算力耗净 ...

我的意思是3D格斗游戏把机能榨得再多含金量也并不高，因为只需要构建两个人物、最多再加个地面，剩下的都是2D图层，整个地图极其狭小、3D空间坐标运算很少，
就像PS那个黑色虚空里的霸王龙DEMO一样、这种情况下把“算力耗净”价值并不大。

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原帖由 @KainX  于 2025-10-19 11:33 发表
当然是有变化的，只不过平面着色是一个面一个面变的：https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiJ9ym1h04

噗，可太有了

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原帖由 jnray 于 2025-10-19 13:17 发表
posted by wap, platform: Android
噗，可太有了

就是啊，你这张截图里李强红裤子上的明暗跟我33楼发的那张里的就不一样啊

感叹一下10年后的掌机PSP已经秒当年天下无敌的Model2了，PSP《死或生：天堂》

[ 本帖最后由 jk02 于 2025-10-19 13:39 编辑 ]

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原帖由 @KainX  于 2025-10-19 13:31 发表
就是啊，你这张截图里李强红裤子上的明暗跟我33楼发的那张里的就不一样啊

女人胸部呢？

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原帖由 jnray 于 2025-10-19 13:36 发表
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女人胸部呢？

前面2楼不是说过吗，板垣这老色P不想妹子皮肤上有色阶、所以故意把平面着色的棱角给“柔化”没了，代价就是光源效果也没了LOL

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听说土星hgame比较多，是真的吗