已经有好几十页了，选最近的热点文章，这里没有反索或反软，稀望战饭们都静下心来看。。。

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpo ... 4&postcount=569

属名JOKER454的业内原先是跨平台制作人，他们的作品因为没找到发行商，现在是某PS3独占作品制作人。

也许不让人高兴，但现实是最好不要运用XB360的真正机能，让跨平台游戏完全一样才是明智之选。做个好游戏重要，但让PS3，XB360版看上去一样更重要，以前的制作人因为做出较差的PS3版被媒体炮轰。只有做出相同的两版本才能叫好。
现在应该让那些性能最优化放在一边，结果是360玩家还是能得到好看的游戏，而PS3玩家也能得到相同的版本，每家都高兴了，这才是商业。
等等，我并不是说PS3明显弱，在某些方面他有明显优势，如CPU和容量，只是在广臆上，他更弱。
比如PS3在deferred rendering 上比XB360强。但都大多数跨平台商来说，他们只会用传统的喧染引擎。
所以我怀疑 Insomniac 会多花数百万，如果要他门把作品移植到360上。
将在在KILLZONE2和GEOW2的对比上，我们会看到deferred rendering。但为deferred rendering所花费的巨大人力财力会让很多游戏商望而却步。。。


There is a reality going on today that people won't like, but here goes anyways. It's better to leave 360 performance unused, and have both 360/PS3 versions run at parity. It just makes good business sense. Why? There's many reasons, but in the end having a deficient PS3 version gives bad press, and reflects badly on the studio. On the other hand, putting out two versions that are identical reflects very nicely on the studio and yields lots of good press. Whether or not technical boundaries of a given platform are maxed out turns out to be irrelevant. Making a good looking game is important, but making it run the same on both machines is becoming even more important. If that means leaving performance/memory unused, then so be it. Is this happening today? Yes. Does it suck? Perhaps. Does it really matter? I don't think so. In the end, the consumer doesn't really know whats going on, they are just happy that their version is running nice. 360 owners still get a good looking game and are happy. PS3 owners get a version that runs the same as the 360 version, and they are happy. Everyones happy, which is good for business.


Hold on, let's backtrack a bit. I definitely would not say the PS3 is significantly weaker. In fact there are some obvious parts of it which are far superior (cpu and storage). The problem is that, in the 'general' sense, it is weaker. By 'general' I mean for typical multi platform studios that don't want to maintain multiple engines and codebases, and who deal with a variety of game types in one studio.

For example, I think PS3 is far better suited to deferred rendering than 360 is. This advantage though is limited in the real world. First, forward/deferred rendering reminds of of the risc/cisc arguments back in the day. Which is really better? Sure, you can demonstrate situations where deferred rendering is better, but the reverse is true as well. If you are a studio that makes a variety of games, then do you really want to gamble a chunk of time/money on deferred? What happens if its better for one type of game, but worse for another? Also, memory is already very tight, can you spare more for deferred? The big problem though with going deferred, is what if you want to make a 360 version? Financially, supporting just one platform doesn't make sense anymore. I'd wager that Insomniac must be wondering how many more millions they would be pulling in if they had 360 versions of their games. As previously mentioned though, at least in my opinion, 360 is not a good platform to go deferred. So what do you do? Does the studio build and maintain two engines? Not a chance. For most multi platform studios you stick with a more traditional rendering engine. This does not play as well to the PS3's strengths, so that's why I say in the 'general' sense, it leaves it at a disadvantage. Plus it has yet to be proven that deferred yields better results. We'll see I guess with the inevitable Gears 2 and Killzone comparisons. What deferred has shown is that it takes tons of time and money to implement, which only leads to scare more studios from it.

更新，对与这贴里天师欢乐的出现，再次贴出作者对天师口中的宝贝RSX（7600GT）的评价，欢迎天师来翻译:D

hate to harp on these kinds of details, so I'll keep it very brief. OS memory is not at parity, 360 still has lots more legroom. Plus, there is much more to RSX limitations that just vertex.

I can go on all day, but I'll just give one example. Lets say you have a shader that uses different samplers based on different circumstances. So for some pixels it may choose texture sampler 0, other cases sampler 1, etc. On 360 dealing with this is simple. Vertex side, you calculate which sampler you need, and simply pass this index value to the pixel shader. Pixel shader side it would use this index value to chose which sampler it needs, and one tex2d call gets you your value.

You cannot index into sampler registers on RSX. So what do you do? You can still calculate the index vertex side and pass it to the pixel shader. Pixel side, there's only 3 solutions I can think of. One is to use is if/else statements to determine which sampler to use. This is bad, but sometimes you have no choice. Or, you can sample from all your samplers, and use lerp's to choose which of the values to use in a branchless way. This is usually better than the above, but still not great. Lastly, if you are lucky then you can group your texures into one uber texture, and just monkey around with the texture coordinates to pick which part of the texture you want. This is even better since it's now just down to one sample and no branches, but only works if you can associate the textures together, which isn't always possible.

It's stuff like this that comes up everyday, which is partly why so few coders want to work on PS3. Then again, its because of this that PS3 coders are in huge demand and my mortgage is being paid off fast, so I guess I should be thanking Sony

[ 本帖最后由 老刘吃嫩草 于 2008-5-3 17:09 编辑 ]

这个从nba2k6到07的演变就能看出一些端倪了，跨平台还是期待360的

当年XBOX被PS2拖累，2K4有720P，到了2K6，只能480P，渣得不是一点半点。
现在历史又在重演。。。

这些废柴开发商不雇佣国家级项目的程序员天师，岂不是自找挨骂

不过人家天师可不便宜哦，四张工资卡呢

这点上，UBI做得比较好，性能强弱一看就知道
从上世代就是这样

FSF，都是FSF！！！

this happening today? Yes. Does it suck? Perhaps. Does it really matter? I don't think so.
这话说的很有趣。
作者说的很对啊，从商业上考虑是该这样，PS3败就败在不该搞个这种不一般的架构出来，有几个公司能有实力并且花银子去投入搞专用PS3的技术，当然都是在用成熟的老方法。
这就有点像当年ADA和C++之争一样

ps3有强很多的cpu和storage（far superior ）。所谓“广义”的“弱”是指跨平台厂并不想做一个跨平台引擎来对应2平台。这里并不指硬件。

很奇怪为什么延迟渲染会是ps3更强些，ue3引擎里大量的应用了延迟渲染，这种技术说白了就是为了减少渲染得工作强度，ue3引擎在两台主机上的表现大家已经看到了，让我很怀疑阿

欧美厂商都习惯于DX编程，要专门为ps3做一个引擎当然要花费巨额资金。看kz2的光影和物理效果可以说是目前为止家用机了最强的，一看就知道厂商花了很多钱。那复杂的漫反射和几乎所有物体可破坏的物理效果，石柱被炸开钢筋露出来这样的细节，以及爆炸后飞沙走石的效果，都是惊人的。

第一：不要拿kz2这种还没有定论的游戏当论据，你那船长我不反对，船长的画面我认为在神机上是最强的了，cod4的神机版几乎没看出什么hdr效果，船长的画面我认为是很漂亮的。kz2上次的试玩，画面并没让记者感到惊讶，相反ai的低下让人难忘，上次的那个秀光影的视频已经被证明作假了

4kw美刀比起1Y美刀还是少了很多

JOKER说的主要是针对多平台游戏，那种独占的要另说，就跟他说的一样，KZ2还是等出来的跟GEOW 2比比看再说，船长在360上也可以做出那种效果，不过代码基本要重写，所以实际上来说不可能

嗯,kz2号称光环杀手,现在跟geow2比比也不错，我认为他们没胜算，看过epic的招聘广告，能进去的基本上都是牛到不行的人。船长的画面很漂亮，但是特效并不算很强，我很佩服那个场景的美工director，主机不比pc,不能一味的注重技术,能让人最舒服的画面就是好的，当然，像显卡危机那样的好游戏对硬件要求太高了，以至于很多人体验不到

LZ的选择翻译很美啊， in the 'general' sense, it is weaker. By 'general' I mean for typical multi platform studios that don't want to maintain multiple engines and codebases, and who deal with a variety of game types in one studio.

这就是所谓的广义