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原帖由 woodd 于 2014-3-6 10:25 发表
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看电影应该找优点而不是找缺点。一部票房超10亿美金的电影，而且不是续集，总能找出很多优点的。
就像跟人相处，找有优点的人交朋友，而不是把有小缺陷的人拉黑。
所以我一直觉得 ...

从楼主回复这段评论的话，再结合楼主一开始的发言，我认为这段对楼主的评价十分中肯。

说这片6分我不能认同。

5分是一个比较公平的分数。

这片剧情渣得一塌糊涂，只抓了些奇怪的“劲爆”的点，并没有整体规划。前半程和后半程表演方式甚至都不一样（一般来讲如果要区分表演，可以在幼少期和成熟期之间来分，但本片却分在了雪宝前和雪宝后）……

音乐我前面讲过了，工业化媚俗品。lady gaga范儿。

特效整体水平也一般，也许有人觉得“已经比我们强了”。这他妈是废话，你算个P啊。这片的特效创新在几大公司里都排不在前面，不用会做片，用肉眼都能看出来。你看不出来只能说明你看片太少了。

其实这片的最关键问题，就是整体性的“糙”，时时处处都表现出“只完成了70%”的程度。就算气场不错的雪山自建房那段，仔细看城堡的美术设计，那根本不是一种融入了冰雪概念的建筑物设计，那就是对冰的纯粹模仿，设计只用到了6、7分的力气，根本没想着再往里深入（这也有我前面说的技术不行的原因）。

糙还表现在，这片的女王人设其实算是失败的，犯了和PIXAR《勇敢传说》的相同问题——就是角色的造型设计（女王、勇敢传说公主、勇敢传说母后变的那头熊），跟角色产生变化后的性格（盖房时、打架时、变熊时），搭不上……那种设计确实是经过了思考，但只思考了6、7分力气，剩下最关键的观众体验部分那3、4分没去考虑。结果就是冰雪女王变身时萝莉脸没说服力，勇敢母后变熊时的很多行为举止让人尴尬而不是发笑……



我最讨厌的是媚雅范儿，不过这片其实是媚俗的，让人失望。
票房和奖杯都证明了这一点。

引用:

原帖由 dirge 于 2014-3-7 01:59 发表
说这片6分我不能认同。

5分是一个比较公平的分数。

这片剧情渣得一塌糊涂，只抓了些奇怪的“劲爆”的点，并没有整体规划。前半程和后半程表演方式甚至都不一样（一般来讲如果要区分表演，可以在幼少期和成熟期 ...

特效方面，这片儿对冰雪的模拟称得上前无古人吧，不知道您的眼睛是怎么回事儿，您可以找出一个做出哪怕接近Frozen里雪质感的电影吗？迪斯尼为此新开发了一套MPM引擎，也发表过论文，这里有篇讲述这个过程的舔菊文章：
Making of Disney’s Frozen Snow Simulation(http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/mak ... en-snow-simulation/)

Making of Disney’s Frozen: A Material Point Method For Snow Simulation

Snow is a challenging natural phenomenon to visually simulate. While the graphics community has previously considered accumulation and rendering of snow, animation of snow dynamics has not been fully addressed. Additionally, existing techniques for solids and fluids have difficulty producing convincing snow results. Specifically, wet or dense snow that has both solid- and fluid-like properties is difficult to handle. Consequently, this paper presents a novel snow simulation method utilizing a usercontrollable elasto-plastic constitutive model integrated with a hybrid Eulerian/Lagrangian Material Point Method. The method is continuum based and its hybrid nature allows us to use a regular Cartesian grid to automate treatment of self-collision and fracture. It also naturally allows us to derive a grid-based semi-implicit integration scheme that has conditioning independent of the number of Lagrangian particles. We demonstrate the power of our method with a variety of snow phenomena including complex character interactions.

Because of this unique set of circumstances, the snow resulted in a new kind of collaboration between the effects team and creative team on the film that was closer than any Disney film before it. Effects supervisors Dale Mayeda and Marlon West their work bringing Disney’s latest animated film to life, one snowflake at a time, and what it meant to let the character of Elsa control the weather and make it snow in Disney’s Frozen.

The team behind the scenes used math, physics, and a lot of computational horsepower to create a simulator that depicted realistic snow in a virtual environment. They call the tool Matterhorn, and it’s responsible for laying down the foundation for many of the snow effects you see in Frozen. From snowfall to the snow collected on the landscape and characters, Matterhorn’s designers were tasked with starting at a place of simulated reality, which they could then tweak and modify in order to get the perfect look. However, that’s only part of Frozen’s snow story.

Elsa’s magic, which also takes the form of snow and ice, is a unique effect unrelated to Matterhorn; it was designed and implemented in a much different way, starting with a pencil and a lot of paper. “For Elsa’s magic,” Marlon explained, “there was a lot of hand drawn exploration, that our 2D animator Dan Lund did, and our directors really liked that look.” But transitioning the effect into CG wasn’t easy, so the Frozen team called in a pinch hitter in Big Hero 6’s lead effects animator Michael Kaschalk. After 8 weeks of work, they had a breakthrough.

“There is definitely a tone that Mike Giaimo, the art director, really wanted to set in terms of everything about the film having a sense of elegance,” Dale said of Frozen’s look. “When we were trying to figure out what Elsa’s magic was, Michael Kaschalk had really tried to dive in and understand ‘What is her magic?’ That sense of elegance is what he tried to capture and once we got that and the directors saw it they said ‘That’s her magic!’ We very meticulously sculpted curves so that they flow and make these [Norwegian decorative] rosemaling shapes. In the Animated iPad app, I know that the team who worked on it spent time with our artists that created our Elsa’s snow animation rig and he went node by node, exactly so that it was accurate. When you play with it, it feels very much like what we used on this movie.”

“As far as effects animation, it’s definitely a combination of art and science,” pointed out Dale during our discussion of the two types of snow in Frozen. “So much of what we do on a daily basis is not just doing simulations but also making sure the composition is great and the timing is beautiful, and a lot of design as well.”

This is what separates CG effects in an animated film from the similar work done in the live-action filmmaking world. As Marlon explained it, “Unlike live action effects that have to look real and have to go into a live action scene, what we do is really in support of character animation performance and art direction. So we really have to study what our characters are doing; we can’t just develop an effect that appears alone. You really have to ask what the scene is about. Our effects have to be scary, they have to get laughs, they have to be funny, they have to look beautiful; they have to support the story and the performance at any time.”

In the case of Frozen, the snow had to do all of those things and one more: it had to originate in the heart, mind, and occasionally the fingertips of the character Elsa, whose control of the weather is a mixture of direct and indirect will. “She doesn’t just point her hand and snow comes shooting out of it; she’s actually affecting the environment in the way that she creates her magic and the snow is totally based on the performance and the place she is emotionally at any given time.” All the snow except for one scene in the film, Marlon revealed, is tied to Elsa’s feelings.

Even with an effects crew of more than forty, it was never easy. The team had to develop a visual glossary of all the different terminology like frosty and flurry, and some travelled to Jackson Hole, WY to experience deep snow in person. They also had to take up a production schedule unlike any Disney project that has come before, reformatting their typical proess to tackle the unique interplay of characters and effects. “Every week there was some discussion about combinations of Elsa’s magic or how her performance would affect an effect,” said Dale. “On this film we had tons of meetings with all of the departments and it was a lot more of a free-flowing collaborative nature as opposed to a linear one.” Marlon added, “I really hope that continues to be the way we do things going forward. You can see the benefits of it in the film we produced.”

Alexey Stomakhin, Craig Schroeder, Lawrence Chai, Joseph Teran, Andrew Selle – 08/2013
Download PDF  & Download Technical Report also Check







我觉得您哪怕喷做出来的画面就是不爱看就是觉得丑这种感性的，也别提什么创新不创新这种有迹可循的啊，对不对。
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然后说造型设计和冰宫的建筑设计，该片的整体艺术风格都是建立在挪威萨米(Sápmi)族的民族风格之上(顺带一提，您觉得特别糙的本作得了安妮奖的最佳美术设计...)，冰宫里大量运用的向外扩张的冰晶造型，除了参考被称为挪威粹的彩绘流派Rosemaling（本身灵感就来自雪花的形状特点），也是对Elsa彼时内心世界的描绘，早期设计里的冰宫就是你所谓“融入了冰雪概念的建筑物设计”，也就是一冰做的传统城堡，后来为了表达人物内心，才改变了整个冰宫的设计语言，建造冰宫的过程成了Elsa对自己的一种表达。对这个设计上变化的描述，可以看看下面这篇该片艺术设计之一Brittney Lee自己写的一篇博客。
FROZEN: Elsa and Her Ice Palace


I have been holding off on writing a post about working on this film for some time now - mainly because I haven't been able to find the words to do it justice. I will be grateful for this experience for the rest of my life. The schedule was really tough, but in some ways that made those of us who were working on the film love it (and each other ) even more. It is crazy to think that six months ago, I could (and did) belt "Let it Go" in my car and nobody else knew what the heck I was talking about. Now everybody and their brother is belting it in their car, and I am watching their videos on Youtube. Amazing.

I was so lucky to be able to touch many different aspects of the film. This one, though - she is very near and dear to my heart. The more Elsa's character evolved, the more I felt like I was looking in a mirror. While I can (and probably will) go into more detail about the eerie similarities between the lives of the sisters of Arendelle and the Lee sisters, the thing that really hit home for me immediately was this: Elsa is an artist. She expresses herself through creation.

Well, hey! I know that girl.

This characteristic presented an interesting problem. Not only did we need to design Elsa and the world around her, but we needed to design what she would design. Just like her character, this visual language evolved over time, eventually settling on a lyrical rosemaling-inspired treatment for her magic and a sharp-yet-delicate snowflake-inspired treatment for her final creations. I had the great pleasure of working on the interior of the Ice Palace, where a few of these principles went into play.

These are a few of the pieces I did while working on the palace - This first one was done before we figured out the rules of Elsa's design language. It is ethereal for sure, but not quite right for her.



The rest of these pieces actually reflect the final design. The snowflake was the key to this world: once we started to base the design around her snowflake (specifically the one on the floor) , the palace was able to grow like snow/ice crystals around her.







All images are property of Walt Disney Animation Studios.

I will do a few more Frozen posts over the next couple of weeks to cover different aspects of the film. In the meantime, I hope you all have a lovely weekend!
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其实我觉得看不出来Frozen的古典美和绘画美都很正常，就跟你不能指望喷Gravity的人知道有个概念叫做Découpage而卡隆和卢贝兹基的解读对电影创作概念又有多大颠覆。喷人媚俗不媚俗的，脱俗的地方自己能看出来么，呵呵。

说多了，其实谁喜欢啥电影不喜欢啥电影我都支持，审美这种东西都是私密的，自己喜欢就行了，只有一些客观存在的事实可以互相斗两句嘴，喜好这种东西哪有什么争论的必要？说起来我自己其实也从来不喜欢迪士尼，但是每次看见人家牛逼的时候都会跟着舔两下脚，只希望John Lasseter能把迪斯尼的那些底蕴多顺点儿给皮克斯，这样下回想玩儿高雅古典的时候就不会搞出像Brave那么高不成低不就的尴尬玩意儿了

[ 本帖最后由 wpang 于 2014-3-7 04:18 编辑 ]

有些人品味本就不高，并且坚持自己是高品味，不用去说服他们，大家各看各的，不是一类人说不到一块去。

你觉得0分都木有关系的！不影响俺们普通人喜欢

引用:

原帖由 raica 于 2014-3-7 08:31 发表
有些人品味本就不高，并且坚持自己是高品味，不用去说服他们，大家各看各的，不是一类人说不到一块去。

品位高到觉得格莱美最近几年已经落魄到不能看了，但你真要问他到底怎么落魄了，我估计是放不出啥屁来的。

引用:

原帖由 dirge 于 2014-3-7 01:59 发表
说这片6分我不能认同。

5分是一个比较公平的分数。

这片剧情渣得一塌糊涂，只抓了些奇怪的“劲爆”的点，并没有整体规划。前半程和后半程表演方式甚至都不一样（一般来讲如果要区分表演，可以在幼少期和成熟期 ...

观影、审美水平如此低下，还能把自己的低级趣味表现得如此淋漓尽致，真心佩服！

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这片的雪表现就是个灾难，但是完全达到了迪斯尼的预期。因为他们只想做到这个程度就差不多了。

至于冰王宫，你要是看不出成片和设定中如此重大的美术落差……你就老老实实去当翻译搬运工吧，别参与审美讨论这种需要真正用到人脑和思想的行为了。

本帖最后由 dirge 于 2014-3-8 02:23 通过手机版编辑

动画片里的雪，目前我还真没看过比本片更逼真的了

冰河世纪完全没法比

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原帖由 @dirge  于 2014-3-8 02:20 发表
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这片的雪表现就是个灾难，但是完全达到了迪斯尼的预期。因为他们只想做到这个程度就差不多了。

至于冰王宫，你要是看不出成片和设定中如此重大的美术落差……你就老老实实去当翻译搬运工吧，别参与审美讨论这种需要真正用到人脑和思想的行为了。

本帖最后由 dirge 于 201438 02:23 通过手机版编辑  

喷了 自己宣布你不懂是么
您自己好好看看更改过的冰宫设定和成片儿是怎么落差的呗

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个人觉得确实不如长发，宫殿那段也不如孔明灯那段印象深刻

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同意楼主，除了歌曲，其他都是儿童片水准

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上当了！听楼上吹捧，专门下了400M的rm的长发看了一遍，什么玩意？和冰雪简直一个天上一个地下好吗？

从设定上来说明显原始人更优秀，而且讲故事的方式更好

冰雪也就是一个技术创新，整体儿童片水准，当然美国人从小都是看迪斯尼的动画音乐片长大的，怀旧情结主导了评审


少年派的特效纪录片看的泪流满面

那为什么The Croods的reivew分数不高