这个更扯蛋,出个alan的游戏竟然扯到什么精神分析大脑工程上去了
http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/pm/theproject/default.htm









[ 本帖最后由 爱游戏 于 2010-4-22 09:54 编辑 ]

posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

引用:

west2046 发表于 2010-4-22 09:48 原帖

怎么扯出多种分辨率，又生出个新词汇。。你确认你看懂了df的文？ 从头到尾就是只要结果，不问为何的主。。 为的就是想得到个好听不一定实在的数据，有筹码以便和对家阵营喷口水。。。 这本质实际上和游戏饭版主区别不大。。。 很有意思？？

本帖最后由 倍舒爽 于 2010-4-22 11:25 通过手机版编辑

引用:

原帖由 倍舒爽 于 2010-4-22 11:21 发表
posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

怎么扯出多种分辨率，又生出个新词汇。。你确认你看懂了df的文？
从头到尾就是只要结果，不问为何的主。。 为的就是想得到个好听不一定实在的数据，有筹码以便和对家阵营喷 ...

这是我对这两个连接的“翻译”，如果你觉得不对，请自己看原文

引用:

原帖由 暴皮 于 2010-4-22 09:41 发表
真的很假……现在这个问题暂时没有再讨论的价值了，官方的解释出来前也就只能继续扯“觉得”糊还是“觉得”不糊而已。
既然明确说帧缓存已经到了80MB，那么547P必然是Remedy做了一些有趣的取舍之后的结果，等解释吧。
之前不爽是为的官方回复的那种不负责态度，不过现在至少官方论坛另一个管理员还算做了比较像话的回复：

http://forum.alanwake.com/showpost.php?p=71129&postcount=1510
http://forum.alanwake.com/showpost.php?p=71145&postcount=1520

引用:

原帖由 爱游戏 于 2010-4-22 09:51 发表
这个更扯蛋,出个alan的游戏竟然扯到什么精神分析大脑工程上去了
http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/pm/theproject/default.htm



http://farm3.stat ...

外国人很多都喜欢研究奇怪的东西:D

posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

用手机看了，aw多种分辨率的原文哪里有？怎么翻译的？

引用:

原帖由 倍舒爽 于 2010-4-22 11:32 发表
posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

用手机看了，aw多种分辨率的原文哪里有？怎么翻译的？

我什么时候说了aw 多种分辨率了？233

不过连接搞错了，不好意思，282楼我发过一次了

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-alanwake-sub-hd-blog-entry

Alan Wake: the sub-HD debateApril 20th, 2010
Remedy has responded to online claims that upcoming Xbox 360 exclusive Alan Wake runs with a sub-HD resolution, releasing a statement saying that "modern renderers don't work by rendering everything to a certain final on-screen resolution".
Despite a review version of Alan Wake being sent out by Microsoft to the games media with a strict embargo that expires in early May, some websites have run videos and taken screenshots from which pixel counters reckon that the game's native resolution is 960x540. This appears to be a somewhat different state of affairs when compared with early Wake footage we took a look at back in August last year, which was definitely a native 720p.
Initial comments from Remedy expressed dissatisfaction with unauthorised movies, which it said were captured at 960x540, suggesting that they made the game look worse than it actually is. However, it's clear that the resolution analysis was actually performed on shots from German website videogameszone.de and the screens themselves were clearly taken at 720p settings. These shots have now been removed.
Posting on the Alan Wake community forums, Remedy's Markus Maki says that today's renderers use "a combination of techniques and buffers to compose the final detail-rich frames, optimising to improve the visual experience and game performance. Alan Wake's renderer on the Xbox360 uses about 50 different intermediate render targets in different resolutions, colour depths and anti-alias settings for different purposes."
Maki points out that the component parts of the image, including "cascaded shadow maps from sun and moon, shadow maps from flashlights, flares and street lights, z-prepass, tiled color buffers, light buffers for deferred rendering, vector blur, screen-space ambient occlusion, auto-exposure, HUD, video buffers" are all individual elements with their own individual resolutions which are then combined into one 720p image.
So, who is right - Remedy or the pixel counters? Perhaps the most crucial thing is that there is nothing in Maki's carefully worded statement that is at odds with what the pixel counters are saying. Native resolution of the actual framebuffer is never mentioned. That metric is indeed just one element in overall image quality, but it is also one of the most important. Remedy's argument is very similar to the one put forward by Bungie in the wake of Halo 3 being revealed as running at 640p. The bottom line there is that there's little doubt that the Master Chief epic is sub-HD, and would look significantly improved running at native 720p - indeed, the team's own shots confirm that.
Maki is quite right to point out that individual elements of the image operate at their own individual resolutions, but in most cases the opaque geometry usually operates at 720p. Killzone 2 has a 640x360-sized buffer for particles. Conversely, some of the textures on Kratos in God of War III are 2048x2048 in size, but both games are obviously 720p: no-one claims that these games are 360p or 2048p.
Moving on from that, when we select custom resolutions in PC titles, opaque geometry is the key metric being used to define the size of the framebuffer. It's the amount of pixels used to create the image: higher-resolution shadowmaps or textures can't change that, although they do of course play their own part in overall image quality. Regardless, it's also the case that going lower than 720p usually results in scaling artifacts (most noticeable on high detail and edges) and a blurrier image overall.
While the size of the framebuffer is pretty crucial, it is fair to say that there are a host of other factors that come into play - and this is the point that Remedy is putting across. In Tekken 6 on Xbox 360, players actually have the chance to play the game at sub-HD resolutions with motion blur enabled, or else at 1365x768, scaled down to 720p (with the blur removed).


1024x576 up against 1365x768 in Tekken 6. Despite the high-contrast image, aliasing artifacts are not that different between the two shots and textures actually look sharper in the sub-HD interation.

In this case, Namco is using the additional power available with the lower resolution not just to calculate the extremely realistic per-object motion blur. It is also implementing more texture-filtering. Amazingly, despite the huge resolution gulf, Tekken 6 is resolving noticeably more detail running at its 1024x576 default.
Of course, it can also be argued that if Tekken 6 used the same quality of filtering at native 720p, it would offer the best of both worlds and would look better still, but working with consoles requires an acceptance of the reality that there is a finite level of resources available.
If, as the pixel counters say, Alan Wake is running at 960x540 with 4x multisampling anti-aliasing, we do have an existing example of how this looks. Sony's Siren Blood Curse remake on PS3 runs with exactly the same framebuffer set-up. It's another example of how overall image quality still looks very good, and it's pretty impressive just how much the 4xMSAA contributes to reducing the scope of the edge-aliasing. Look beyond the over-bearing grain filter and edge aliasing is virtually non-existent.


Siren runs at 960x540, 4xMSAA and possesses a distinct visual set-up - edge aliasing is extremely difficult to locate throughout the game.

In short then, while native resolution is a defining factor, it is not the be-all and end-all of image quality. Where we have cross-format games and a direct comparison, usually the extra resolution we get from native 720p does make a difference. In the case of Alan Wake, there will be no such comparison, and bearing in mind the extended development time, you would hope that we would see something of the "Tekken effect", whereby any shortcoming in resolution there would be mitigated by processing being carried out elsewhere.

看不大懂, 谁来简略翻译下LS的文章.

引用:

原帖由 小色 于 2010-4-22 09:31 发表
全部都是赞誉之词，我是不是可以认为塞钱了？

ps：remedy公司是哪个国家的？我记得不是澳大利亚的吧

芬蘭,不過那幾天他們去澳洲宣傳了

个人看法：

1、贴图分辨率可以很高，那篇文章举了战神3的例子，部分贴图分辨率超过2000*2000，实际上很多年前的painkiller、pc版silent hill也是这样，kz2的粒子处理分辨率又很低，360p，但是这说明不了问题，因为这根本不是我们常规意义上说的“分辨率”

2、普遍共识是：出现在屏幕上的分辨率，我们一般以多边形的处理表现来界定——因为，事实上这个也是对画面解晰度影响最大的

3、那篇文章和这里很多玩家也提到：其实分辨率什么的最讨厌了，并不重要，Alan总体画面表现很漂亮

4、最后，实际什么表现，还是得等玩到游戏才晓得

[ 本帖最后由 superjay 于 2010-4-22 12:04 编辑 ]

posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

引用:

west2046 发表于 2010-4-22 11:39
原帖由 倍舒爽 于 2010422 11:32 发表
posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

用手机看了，aw多种分辨率的原文哪里有？怎么翻译的？
我什么时候说了aw 多种分辨率了？233

不过连接搞错了，不好意思，282楼 ...

所以说乃就是只要结果不问为何嘛，这都是前面已经说烂的东西。。
回帖都不看贴。。

引用:

原帖由 倍舒爽 于 2010-4-22 12:08 发表
posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

所以说乃就是只要结果不问为何嘛，这都是前面已经说烂的东西。。
回帖都不看贴。。

那还喷这么多页了，等正式版再喷

posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

引用:

west2046 发表于 2010-4-22 12:26
原帖由 倍舒爽 于 2010422 12:08 发表
posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

所以说乃就是只要结果不问为何嘛，这都是前面已经说烂的东西。。
回帖都不看贴。。
那还喷这么多页了，等正式版再喷

现在顶了这么多楼，还不是因为乃们骨子里的种族主义搞出来的？大部分都不问何解，不看贴，只是基于对厂家发言的信仰热切盼望个数据来胡乱回复。。p3在这贴都不关事的都有人拿来喷，真是躺着都中弹。。
一开始俺的回复就说首楼的那软文除了80m这个字眼外，基本可以对应其他游戏。。
只要是3d的。。
后来俺又说结论已经确认了，可以锁了好不好啊。。
然后df后来还是出来了，基本就是总结了此贴有用的部分。。

引用:

原帖由 倍舒爽 于 2010-4-22 12:43 发表
posted by wap, platform: Nokia (E71)

现在顶了这么多楼，还不是因为乃们骨子里的种族主义搞出来的？大部分都不问何解，不看贴，只是基于对厂家发言的信仰热切盼望个数据来胡乱回复。。p3在这贴都不关事的都有人拿 ...

这帖还不错，起码比那些进来就说就一句5元预订或者画面分辨率不行好很多，起码是有东西喷而不是喷口水:D

喷了这么多页，看样子5元也省下了，渣画面

引用:

原帖由 finalx 于 2010-4-22 13:01 发表
喷了这么多页，看样子5元也省下了，渣画面